Welcome to this author interview with SA Sidor. I learned so much about writing by talking to him. He is a wealth of knowledge and had some entertaining stories about his time as a writer. He also shared a story about how and why he became a writer that will stick with me for a long, long time.

---

Podcast

🎧 Listen on Apple Podcast

🎧 Listen on Spotify

🎧 Other Listening Options

🎧 Or Listen Below!

---

TOPICS

• His newest book
• How he came up with the idea for his story
• Why he likes writing pulp fiction, and more!

3 BIG TAKEAWAYS 

1. Be willing to take feedback
2. Use life’s experiences to tell great stories – look for stories everywhere
3. Try to hijack your time by whatever means necessary

---

Biography

Sidor is the author of supernatural-pulp adventures. He lives near Chicago with his family. His second Arkham Horror novel Cult of the Spider Queen came out this month! Go grab yourself a copy!

---

Transcript

WLIS 105 SAS

WLIS 105 SAS

David Gwyn: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. I’m back. I wasn’t planning on taking a hiatus, but when my wife and I brought home our second child about four weeks ago, well, it’s been hectic who haven’t already listened to. Part one of my interview with David Metzker where we talk about parenting while writing, be sure to check that out because honestly, two kids is.

More than twice as difficult. And I’ve been finding that out on a day to day basis. So I’m back now and I’m excited about the interview series. There’s some amazing interviews headed your way. If I do say so myself, so let’s dive right in. Welcome to part one of this two part interview with SA cider. He is the author of supernatural pulp adventures.

He lives near Chicago with his family. His second Aham horror novel cult of the spider queen came out this week. Go grab yourself a copy. In part one of this interview, we’re gonna be talking about his newest book. How he came up with the idea for his story, why he likes writing pulp fiction and more let’s get to the interview.

Like I mentioned before, we kind of [00:01:00] started recording. I don’t read a ton of pulp fiction, but there was just something about your, your book that, that grabbed me. And I, I thought I’d give it a shot and I’ve really enjoyed it. So can you share, as we kind of start here, just share a little bit about your book, uh, and, and you know, what it’s about and what it’s called so people can find it.

SA Sidor: Sure. Um, cult the spider queen, it’s a, it’s a pulp adventure, and it’s set in the world of Aham horror. Um, so it’s a, it’s a tie in novel and, um, but you don’t need to have played the games to enjoy the. Enjoy the story it’s it works on its own, but hopefully if people read it, they get intrigued, uh, to want to, to want to play the game.

And this, this particular story takes place. Um, outside of ACAM it, it starts in ACAM, but, um, it’s tied into an adventure that happens mostly in the, uh, in the Brazilian Amazon, uh, jungle. And, um, it’s a story of a, there’s a, so it happens in the 1920s and, um, there’s a, a female, uh, documentary filmmaker who goes down to the Amazon to, um, [00:02:00] Look into the myth of the spider queen and see if she can find this mythical, this mythical figure.

And she goes missing along with her, uh, cameraman and expedition crew, and then a reporter, a young reporter back in Aham, um, receives a film reel that shows footage of. Uh, the, the filmmaker, uh, who went missing and her cameraman at this shrine in the jungle. And, um, this is, this is, he feels his big chance to have the story, uh, of a lifetime to catapult his career.

So he gathers together a group of people to do, uh, uh, a. A second expedition to go look for her and to see if they can find, um, if the spider queen is real. So that’s sort of the setup. So you have a, you have this, uh, crew of people who, uh, are composed of investigators that come from the game from the, um, Aham horror board game and also, uh, Characters that I created and, um, hopefully they’re sort of seamlessly blended to blended together.

So, uh, everyone seems on the same, uh, level of, uh, of [00:03:00] reality and the people can, can invest in, in all of the characters. And then they go down to the, uh, on, on this, uh, sort of expedition and, um, Things are not what they, what they seem and, um, forbidden knowledge and all the sort of great things that happen in those sort of, uh, pulp adventures.

David Gwyn: Yeah. I, I was going listening to you say it made me remember why I decided to read it like that. Just I’m just such a sucker for that mystery. Like the kinda like hidden tapes, like secret what what’s happening here, um, is, is super fun. So how did you come up with the idea for this story? I mean, I know, and we’ll talk a little bit about tie-ins, which I I’m, like I mentioned, I, I.

Really well versed in, in pulp fiction at all. Um, and I was super interested to kind of read about, and, and I I’m interested to hear more, but this particular story, what, what was it, um, that made you wanna write this particular one?

SA Sidor: I had written another book for, um, for Aite, my publisher that was tied into Arkham horror, and it was a completely different kind of a story.

It was set mostly in acum. Um, and it had to do with surrealist painters and, um, [00:04:00] Uh, it was sort of dealing with, um, the elites of the town of ACAM and I wanted to do something completely different and I’ve always been, um, uh, I’ve always enjoyed stories about, uh, uh, jungle expeditions and the Amazon. And so I thought that would be a really, uh, fun place to visit, uh, with a story like this.

And I thought it was a good, a good way of sort of blending. You could blend elements of horror and elements of adventure. And, um, there was a, there. Great opportunities for sort of, uh, strange creatures to show up down there that initially might be thought of as, um, exotic creatures from the jungle, which turned out to be exotic creatures from another dimension.

And so I think that was the initial idea that I had, that it would be good to have an, uh, sort of that far flung, um, Adventure down there. And then, um, it sort of grows from that little, that little seed into how am I gonna do this? Who, who would be in, who would be the most interesting characters to bring down there?

I don’t want it to be sort of a retread kind [00:05:00] of Indiana Jones thing we’ve seen before. Um, I want it to feel fresh and have, uh, you know, have different ways into the story for people who, um, maybe don’t have never read this kind of thing before. And so, um, you know, that’s, that was really the. The starting place for me.

Yeah. I, I

David Gwyn: really respond to that because I I’m somebody who’s new to pulp fiction and, and it, it really, I didn’t feel like I was missing anything by not having kind of that, that background of the, the story already. And so I, I feel like it was really accessible in a lot of ways, which, which I’m sure other people are gonna find as well.

So. I know you started out with thrillers, which we’ll, we’ll talk about in a second. Right. Um, but, but you’ve done a few pulp fiction. What, what do you like so much about writing pulp fiction?

SA Sidor: Um, yeah, I did, I did two, um, books, uh, uh, fury from the tomb, which was set in, um, Egypt and, um, beast of nightfall lodge that was set in the first book was set in Egypt and in and in Mexico.

And then, um, and that was sort of a blend [00:06:00] of, um, sort of a spaghetti Western hammer horror. Mash up between those thing, those two elements that I’d never seen before. And then I did a sequel to the, to those books, which was set in the, in the west, um, called the beast of nightfall lodge. And those two books I worked with, um, the same people I’m working with at, um, largely the same people I’m working with at Aconite.

So then all I’m, all I did was I sort of took the kind of elements and things that I enjoyed playing with. Um, with the two books, I did it for angry robot and transferred them. Or, you know, melded them together with, uh, the world of Arkham horror, which I thought was a great fit. Um, uh, it, it just really went together really well.

And I think what I like about, uh, pulp is, um, You can do all these mashups. You can take things from different genres, so you can have elements of, um, high adventure. You can have elements of horror, elements of mystery, and at different times in the story, you can lean on different, um, uh, different areas with that.

So, so, [00:07:00] so the, the book, the last ritual, the first book that I wrote for, um, for a, and I be. Tied into Aram horror. Um, had a strong mystery element. There was a, there was a mystery they were trying to, to solve and it was sort of a slow build. Um, Uh, what is reality? What is not reality? Uh, take on, um, on, on horror and then this has horror elements, but it was much more a, um, an adventure story where people are going, you know, they’re being chased by monsters.

They’re going into, uh, places where, uh, they’ve never been before. And very few people have, have recorded, uh, histories, uh, that they can, um, talk about. So, You know, so I, I, I just like the idea of there’s so many things, like, there’s almost nothing you can’t bring in. I also like writing about this historical period.

I think writing adventures that are, that are, um, uh, set in the, in the, you know, farther back in the past is, um, it’s fun for me. I like doing the research. I like putting myself in that, in that time [00:08:00] period. And I feel like it’s a really, um, there’s lots of stuff there that I haven’t seen a lot, or I wish I saw more of, or I wish I.

Handled better either in fiction or in, in the movies. You know, some something where I feel like I can make a contribution here. That’s high quality. That’s an exciting story with real fleshed out characters. Um, in a way that I would like to pick up these kind of books and read them, read them myself.

David Gwyn: Yeah, that’s great. I I’m actually wondering about that. And it’s something that I’ve I heard from an interview, I was listening to with a different author talking about, they were doing a tie in with a different franchise and said that there there’s some kind of comfort in the confines of working within, you know, like a, a, an already established world.

Like ACAM mm-hmm did you find that the confine. Allow you to, to enough creativity, to like, like you, like you’re saying, you’re kind of, you see enough, uh, shoot offs of just this, this one universe that you’re able to create a [00:09:00] whole entire new stories that people really enjoy. Like, do you like the confines or is it, is it kind of like, you’re not sure how, how to play it out.

SA Sidor: I read a lot of Arkham. Horror is a, is a Lovecraftian universe. So it’s coming from the world of HP Lovecraft. Um, I’ve read a lot of HP Lovecraft. I actually enjoy reading other works that are set in the world of HP Lovecraft rather than Lovecraft himself. I, I certainly see the appeal of Lovecraft.

There’s a lot of, uh, problematic qualities to Lovecraft that are hard to ignore when you’re, when you’re reading his stories. I mean, there. There’s racism and there’s, um, misogyny and misanthropy, and it’s a very bleak, dark world. And he’s, it’s, it’s an interesting appeal to Lovecraft because, um, I don’t think he particularly, uh, stresses action, uh, in, in his stories.

And so. There’s a space to create an, a more action based plot in a universe created by someone who didn’t always, [00:10:00] um, stress that in his own work. And so I like a lot of, uh, um, Subsequent work that’s been set in that universe. And the great thing about working, um, with these tie-ins is I sort of have a set of investigators that come from the game and it’s sort of like having, um, someone else’s toy box when you’re a kid and you can play with their toys.

Um, and enter the world that they already, that, that they’ve already created. That’s already there and see what you can do with it. And, uh, creatively, that was very, um, exciting for me. It was something that, uh, sparked, um, a lot of ideas for me, RA I think initially on the surface it looks like it would be restrictive, but in a way, it wasn’t because creatively trying to figure out how can I fit something in this world.

Um, That seems to belong there that wasn’t there before, um, is, uh, very energizing. Mm. It,

David Gwyn: it’s funny. It, you know, [00:11:00] you mentioned Lovecraft and that, that’s where I thought the Arcam, I I’ve, I’ve read some, some Lovecraft and, and kind of the same thing as you. Like, I, I like it, but I like the like ambiance of Lovecraft more than I like the kind of like story.

So that’s kind of why I’m excited. This, this find, uh, as well, but it, it’s funny, you bring up a sandbox and playing with the toys, cuz like, do you feel like, I wonder how much pressure there is from those like hardcore ARCOM community people? Like, are they worried about like you can play in our sandbox, but like put everything back where you found it, is that kind of how, how it works?

Um,

SA Sidor: I really have, have had only. Uh, the best relationship so far with the, with the game, uh, with the people who, um, are from, uh, the gaming company, um, they’ve, they’ve sort of given me free reign. I mean, we it’s much more collaborative than, than typically when you, when I, when I write a book because, um, I do have to check in and make sure that, um, You know, uh, that I’m telling a story that they feel like fits in their world and that we’re both on the same page and that we both [00:12:00] agree that this is a fun thing to, to try out.

And, um, in those discussions, uh, my stories and ideas and characters get pushed in ways that I would not have thought of initially. But once I start hearing from other people at the early stages of when we’re talk, you know, talking about things, um, it really, um, Is exciting because typically when I’m, when I’m writing a story and I’m not working, um, on a tie-in or with, or with something like this, I’m coming that I’m, I’m doing that all alone.

And so you’re sort of, um, not, you know, you’re really just drawing from your own. Wow. And in this case, people are, uh, talking to me or at the early stages when typically that only comes after the story’s been written and you need to, you need to fix things or whatever. So it’s, it’s interesting to sort of have that along the way.

And I found it, um, Very helpful and something I’ve really enjoyed, um, in doing and they have not. Um, I haven’t, again, I, I, I find it very, it’s been very freeing and very creative for me.

David Gwyn: Nice. And how did that [00:13:00] relationship start? I mean, were you first in contact with ACAM and then Aite or they kind of part of the same group?

Did you reach out to them? Did they reach out to you? Like how did that whole thing process.

SA Sidor: I had worked with the same publisher at angry robot, and then he started Aconite and, um, I had also worked on my last book with Arken with the same editor that I now work with, um, at Aconite. And so they contacted me initially to say, Hey, is this something you’d like to do?

We’re starting this new publishing company that’s working with tie-ins to board games. And I had all, I, I actually had played the Arkham horror board game and other, uh, board games in that sort of, uh, universe there. And. And I hadn’t paid a lot of other board games and I thought, wow, the chance to write a story here just seemed so, um, exciting to me.

And so, um, it was really also, I very much enjoyed working with mark and Lotti from Aite, um, my publisher and, and editor and, um, and I knew that they quality work [00:14:00] and that they’re, um, they’re really good to work with and they bring out a lot of the best qualities in my own writing. And so for me, it was an easy decision to say, sure, I’ll try to.

I’ll try to do a couple of books with you guys. And so that’s really where that that’s really where that came from, uh, initially. And, um, we’ve gone. We’ve gone from there.

David Gwyn: Yeah. And so, you know, like we talked about you’ve, you’ve done some of your own kind of standalone crime fiction, thrillers. Um, and are you trying to balance both of these worlds?

Are you like permanent in, in, uh, pulp fiction? Are you really enjoying it, not worrying about it or are you still balancing your own projects as well?

SA Sidor: I don’t really, I don’t really see it as. What I started doing crime thrillers because I, I sort of, I sort of came up in the, in the nineties reading a lot of crime, thrillers by, uh, writers who were really hot at the time, Dennis Lahan and George PE Conos and Lawrence block.

And these were really inspiring writers for me. Um, when I was just getting started and I thought I wanna write [00:15:00] the kind of things they do, which was basically a dark crime thriller. And I did, um, I did four dark crime thrillers, and I really enjoyed doing it. But as the books progressed, I went from, um, to I, I started including more and more, uh, supernatural elements in my story.

So my third novel and my fourth novel had a cult and supernatural elements because I felt that the, um, The, there were so many great writers writing crime fiction at the time. And a lot of them were ex-cop and ex reporters and ex lawyers. And so they had insights and experience into the real world of crime investigations.

And what was going on that I couldn’t bring to that. I mean, I’d wor I’d worked as a case manager in social work. Um, and, um, and my background before that was in English literature, Bri 18th century, British British literature . And so I thought, well, well, what can. What angle can I bring to crime fiction that I feel like is not a, a crowded place where there’s lots of, um, [00:16:00] really work, good work that’s being done where I can’t distinguish myself.

And I thought, well, I’ve always enjoyed reading horror. And I’ve always enjoyed reading about, um, the super supernatural and a cult. And I’m like, maybe I’ll put some of that in there. And I think that worked, but as I was doing that more, I thought, um, boy, that’s, that’s what I’m really. I seem to get better ideas in the more I include of that.

So then I just, I sort of made this switch from doing primarily what would’ve been classified as a crime thriller to doing what is considered pulp fantasy. Uh, and you know, then, then that was how I, and it was, you know, it is a, it is a genre change, but I really don’t feel like I do. Um, I don’t feel like I really approach the project any differently.

And the, I try to keep the quality equally as high and these books feel as much mine. Um, even though they’re set in, even though they’re tie in novels, they feel as much mine and, and as original, um, as anything else that I’ve done. [00:17:00] Mm.

David Gwyn: Yeah. And I, I hear that a lot. I, I, I did a little bit of research on not kind of in, in leading up to this conversation about other pulp fiction writers and, and they kind of say the same thing that like, it, it feels almost more like a sequel of your own novel than it does, like.

Writing somebody else’s right. Works. You know, there’s something that’s out there already that you appreciate that you just want to add onto and, and kind of take it in a different way and take it in your own in your own way. Mm-hmm I really like, um, that message, I, I think too, and, and, and, you know, this is kind of goes back to why I, I created this whole interview series, which is trying to create a place for people who wanna write, but don’t know how to do it.

Don’t know how to get started. Don’t know where to go. And I, and I, when I read your story, You know, kind of through crime fiction, into pulp fiction and was in kind of this realm. I, I had never really explored or, or heard much about mm-hmm um, I, I was really interested in, in chatting with you and I, I think that you really nailed it in that, like you started to find.

First a, a place in the [00:18:00] marketplace for yourself because you, you recognize what was already out there, but second, like your writing kind of progressed as you towards like your, your interests as you as the more you wrote. Um, which I think is really interesting that I feel like people don’t talk about, um, much.

It feels very much like once you’re in a, in a genre, you kind of stick there. Um, and so when you had to, to make that shift, did you find. Really natural to move towards towards the like kind of pulp fantasy, um, realm. Like, did it just feel really natural as you were doing it?

SA Sidor: Well, to go back to when I was, when I was first starting to try to get things published, I, um, I had looked at some and this was my, my first things I actually published were, um, horror, short stories online.

They were published on the, uh, on online publications. And what I did is I looked for markets that. That got a lot of hits that I felt like I could create a story for. I tried to, I read, I read the stories that the, those, um, sites were, were publishing and I sort of set [00:19:00] very specific goals for myself. I, I would say, you know, here’s, um, Here, here’s a specific website.

Here’s the kind of stories they seem to like. And I, and I sort of like an exercise. I said, can I write something that they’ll want? And I think I did that four or five times and they all got published and I thought, okay, that, and that helped build my confidence that I could analyze what somebody was looking for and could I do it and, and succeed.

And that helped me. While I was working on my first novel, which I was writing, you know, late at night and it’s a much bigger project to work on something. Um, like that short stories and novels are very different in the, in the construction. One’s like sort of like building a house, the other one’s like building a city and, and, and so I wanted to know, um, It made me feel like, okay, I can do this because it’s a very discouraging process when you’re first getting starting out and you hear a lot of rejection and it’s good to have anything to sort of like build your confidence that maybe I do know what I’m doing.

Maybe I can, um, build towards something. So I [00:20:00] think I won a couple of contests that, uh, one of the contests, uh, got me my first website. And then my first website helped me find my. And, um, and then I worked really hard on, on my first novel and, um, it went through many rewrites, which, um, which I think is important.

I think a lot of writers feel like if they work on something hard, um, for a long time, um, They they’re reluctant to go in and change things. And I’ve tried to never be that way. I mean, I think there’s certain things you have to fight for that. You’re like, well, I’m not gonna change this character or, but I, but I think by listening to people who are in the business, who are either, you know, I’ve always listened to my agent, I’ve worked with the same agent.

Um, since 2003, I think. And, um, and she always has given me good insight and I know she’s on my side. You know, she wants to see my work get published too. And so some of the things were hard to hear with that first book. Like I had, uh, a whole major character that. um, we, in our discussions after the, after [00:21:00] sending out the book for the first round, and it didn’t find anybody who was interested in it, she’s like, well, maybe we take this character out.

And that required a lot of work. I mean, that’s a lot of surgery on a book to remove one of the major characters and then sew everything back up. So you don’t notice that something’s missing and then I felt like I wasn’t very good at dialogue. And so I took out all the dialogue for my whole book. And what I did is I rewrote that dialogue, but not, um, Not with quotation marks.

And he said, she said, but sort of, um, I would just have the names of the characters, like, you know, buddy and Dan and I would just have a colon and what they said. Mm. And so to me, I got a much more natural flow to what the dialogue should sound like. And then I converted it into. How it would look in pros in a novel and both of those things to go through a, you know, a 350 page book and do that, um, took a tremendous amount of time, a tremendous amount of work, but I was learning, you know, and, and it was building my, I, I look at writing very much as a craft and you’re like learning skills on how to build things.

And, [00:22:00] um, and that takes time and patience with yourself as well. And then it was after I made those changes that we got somebody to, you know, St Martin’s publish my, you know, that first book. It never. And I was much happier with the product I had at the end and was so glad in a way that I, that I had gone through that very tough process, because if the original version had been per had, had been published, it would not have been as good as, um, or I would not have been as happy with it.

I mean, it’s hard to judge your own work, but I would not have been as satisfied as I, as I am with what eventually got published. And so, and I think that’s something I tried to. In mind as I’ve gone forward. I always listen to my editors. I listen to my agent. I listen to people. Um, and again, that doesn’t mean you make every change that they’re suggesting or bringing up, but figuring out well, is there something to what they’re saying?

And is there another way I can do this and I’ve never gotten overly precious about my [00:23:00] own words. I’m always willing to. Take another crack at it. See if I can do it better. And I mean, I had a, I had a book, one of the books I did, um, one of the crime novels I did, I think I rewrote the ending like five complete different endings before my editor was satisfied.

And it was, it was really, um, hard cuz every time I thought I knocked it out of the park, I thought, I thought this is the, this is a great ending. And then my editor would come back to me and say, nah, it’s just. it’s not satisfying. And then, but the final ending that I got to that novel was so much better than what I had come up with with before.

And if I had closed down and, um, rejected what people were saying and walked away or refused to make those changes, um, I, I would’ve ultimately lost out and the book would’ve lost out.

David Gwyn: So I wanna stop here because I, I think there was some great information that I just wanna slow down and sit with for a minute.

First, consider challenging yourself by finding a market you wanna write in, see if you can find [00:24:00] submission directions for a short fiction website or magazine, or even contest. Try to produce something that can get publish. This will help build up your writer, bio and validate your skills, a person who really like this advice, and I’m gonna try it in the coming months.

Next don’t shy away from feedback. Listen to the people who are in your corner. Know when it’s good feedback and always go with your gut. The writers I’ve talked to like David Metzger and Grady Hendrix. They’ll talk about how important that feedback is and how they’re able to synthesize it. So be open to feedback, going, expecting to have to revise because you will, and in the end, your work will be better for it.

Let’s go to the last part of this interview. Yeah, I, I think it’s so cool. The way you describe your agent, your editor, as, as almost like a team. And I was just talking to somebody a few days ago and, and she kind of brought this up and it’s funny that you bring it up too. Cause it’s, it’s not the first time I’ve heard it, but it’s the first time it’s really [00:25:00] come to, to the front of my mind where you know you, if, and I, I grew up playing sports.

And so if, if you know, your coach is yelling at you, but you have the same goal, you both wanna win the game, then. The, the feedback that you’re getting is not to beat you down. It’s because you have the same goal and it sounds like you had a lot of that same. Feedback with your agent where you realize that what she’s doing is, is trying to make your book as good as it possibly can be.

And that’s where the, the edits, and then you can kind of take that feedback. Um, I think that’s really cool. So whenever I talk to, to people, I always ask them, like, if you wanna shout out your agent and say like one thing that makes her like a really great agent. Um, and so the people who are listening can kind of think about when they’re looking for an agent, what

SA Sidor: to look.

Right. My agent is, uh, Ann Colette from the, uh, Helen Reese agency in, uh, in Boston is where the agency’s based though. Although Anne lives in, uh, Texas now. And, um, the best thing about Ann Ann and I have become really good friends over the years. And the best thing about Ann is I [00:26:00] know she’s going to be brutally honest with me with whatever I, I mean, she is going to tell me exactly what she thinks and.

When you’re writing and you’re showing your work to friends or relatives or other writers, there’s oftentimes, you know, um, a lot of other factors going in there where there’s some people who would just tell you encouraging things and those people, I’m not saying those people, aren’t good to have, cuz sometimes you need to hear encouraging things when you’re feeling down, uh, about your work.

But sometimes that’s not gonna help you as much as the person who says, well, this character. I don’t understand what they’re doing or why they’re doing it, or, or, um, I don’t know why you had this scene, which made no sense to me. And those, I mean, your initial reaction is, is going to be defensive. I mean, it, it is for me, certainly whenever I, all the feedback I take, my initial reaction is, well, I did a, I thought I did a great job the first time.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. and then after I sort of cool down a little bit and look at it, um, I’m like, well, [00:27:00] I can see where that, you know, it it’s a process. And then I’m like, well, can I make it better? And I think you really have to develop an ability to take criticism and use, use it for fuel, use it to get better.

Um, and not don’t use it to, um, have fights with people , you know, and again, I’m, I’m not saying. Everything that someone tells you, you should just change it because if you’re trying to please everyone, you’re also going to fail. So I think you really have to in, you really have to think about it. and I think that’s something that some people just don’t do, because I think a lot of people who I know who are writers have been very, very successful in other areas of their life, they were either very successful students or they were very successful in some career.

And, you know, they know they’re smart. They know they have stories to tell, they know they have talent. And so sometimes that leads people. The, the drive that keeps you going can also be something [00:28:00] that shuts you down to listening to outside. You know, uh, CRI criticism of your work. And I think that can be, uh, lead to self sabotage and, and, and a lot of, um, a lot of bad things too.

So it’s kind of a balance you have to, you have to be, you have to fight for yourself and fight for your work, but at the same time, Be able to take things that people are saying. And, um, everything is about the book to me, you know, the book, the book is more important than, than me or how I feel today because you told me that, that you didn’t really like the last chapter, you know?

So I’ve gotta make the book better because in the end, that’s what I want. That’s what I want. I want the best book that I can make.

David Gwyn: Yeah. It’s such a great message. All right. And that’s it for part one in part two of this interview, next week, we are gonna talk about how cider got into writing. How his previous jobs influenced his work and how he hijacks his time and holds himself hostage with caffeine.

Be sure to check that out next week. And if you haven’t subscribed yet, please do so you don’t miss [00:29:00] any great content.

Hey there. Welcome to part

SA Sidor: two of this two part interview today. I’ll continue my conversation with SA cider. He’s the author of supernatural pulp adventures. He lives near Chicago with his family. His second Aham horror novel cult of the spider queen came out last week. So go grab yourself a copy.

David Gwyn: In part two of this interview, we’re gonna be talking about

SA Sidor: how he got into storytelling to avoid being bullied,

David Gwyn: his background and training and writing, and his advice for writers.

Let’s get to it. Mm-hmm so I, I want to backtrack a bit and, and let’s talk about the, the beginning here. How did you know when you started writing or when you knew you wanted to, to start writing? Like when was that were, if you always wanted to be a writer, did it kind of happen? later, like when I know you were an English major, but mm-hmm um, when, when did you decide that writing was the career that you wanted?

SA Sidor: I think the first time [00:30:00] I really started thinking about writing. I was very young. I’d been very close. I lived in a, in a house where my, my family, my parents, and my sister and I, we lived in a two flat with my grandparents and we lived in upstairs in Chicago and we lived upstairs. So that’s like an apartment or a, or a flat upstairs.

And then downstairs, my grandparents lived and I was super close with my grandfather. Who was a guy who had a lot of great stories and he was a, he didn’t talk a lot. People had a lot of great stories about him. He’d sort of had this really interesting life. He’d been a boxer, he’d been a bodyguard. Um, he’d, uh, he’d dug coal.

He’d, he’d traveled to, um, Cuba during the revolution. He’d done a lot of things that other people hadn’t done. And he was sort of like known in the neighborhood as like this strong guy. And he and I were really close, but the thing we did together a lot was, um, we color. In coloring books, we would sit there and he would have his, his beer and his cigarette.

And we would be coloring through coloring books of, of, of various kinds that I had. And, um, he really enjoyed it. He really took time working on it. And then all [00:31:00] of a sudden, one day when I was like seven years old, um, he, he died and it was a big shock to my, to everything. And I went through like a year or more of being a really depressed little kid and really thinking about death way more.

10 a seven year old should think about death. Mm-hmm . And I think out of that really came this feeling of, if I write something, I will leave something when I’m gone, that will still be here. And I started writing down some stories. I knew about my grandfather, and then I started writing other stories. And that was the first time I remember ever writing stories down and people in the family got very, um, emotional when I shared these stories with them.

I didn’t really understand why. Um, but it was because obviously I’d had this close relationship and they knew that I was feeling I was struggling and, and that this had happened to me. Um, and also I was, as a kid, I was bullied a lot in my neighborhood. I was always, I always sort of talked like an [00:32:00] adult, even when I was very young.

That didn’t necessarily go over great in the neighborhood. and I, and I found out to my great surprise that the guys in the neighborhood who like to beat me up, if I could tell them a story about something that I knew that was a scary story or a story about some, you know, something that happened, a crime or something that happened in the neighborhood, they would stop harassing me.

And we would like sit down and they would listen to my story and they’d say, well, do you know any other things. Like that. And I was like, wow, this is keeping me from being beaten up you know? And, and so that really, I think, as a storyteller, I saw the power and the enjoyment that these people were taking from hearing me tell stories, um, And I talked to a lot of the old people in my neighborhood.

I would go down and they would old people would sit on their front porches or their stoops and nobody, you know, they would just kinda like, say, hi, they’d yell at you. And I would go there and talk to them. And a lot of these, [00:33:00] um, Uh, senior citizens in my neighborhood. Um, this would be like in the, in the seventies, in, in Chicago, they would, they would start telling me stories if I hung around long enough.

And they were telling me stories that were wholly inappropriate to tell to a little kid about like the guy who got, uh, you know, the hit job on the guy two blocks over and how they saw the guys who were delivering Christmas presents, but inside the Christmas presents with a gun and that’s when he got killed, but they were never gonna tell the police or other things like, you know, that house there down the block, that’s a haunted house and you know, who used to live there?

I would go home and I couldn’t believe that these people were telling me these, these stories. And then I tell my mom she’s like, they should have never told you that that was wrong. Why did, why did they do that? But then I used these stories to tell the bullies so that they wouldn’t, so they wouldn’t pick on me.

And then, you know, so then, you know, fast forward ahead in, I had a influential teacher in high school who made me really, uh, uh, fall in love with reading books and literature, you know, things that I thought were boring at the time. And, um, and he. [00:34:00] Told me, cuz I’d always read a tremendous amount outside of school.

Um, but I never connected that the books that I read for fun, which were thrillers and crime novels and horror stories, and I was reading, uh, Steven King and Robert Ludlam and, and, and different kinds of, uh, every, I was reading everything because my parents wouldn’t let me go see, um, they wouldn’t let me go see an R rated movie, but I could read any book I wanted.

Mm-hmm so I would go to the, I would go to the library and I’d go to the spin racks, where they had all the paperbacks and I could pick out anything. And my parents didn’t censor me from reading any books. And so a lot of times, um, there would be movies that I really wanted to see that I knew my parents would never let me see, like the Exorcist was one that comes to mind or jaws and.

so I read the book and, um, so then when I was in high school, this, I start, I started to, I started to see that, um, all this reading that I had done was really paying off in that. Um, my writing was better than, than average. I think there was some, there’s some natural talent as a storyteller and my dad was a great storyteller and natural talent to.[00:35:00]

Put words on, on the page or recognize what’s good or what’s bad in a sentence, you know, like, oh, that’s a snap, that’s a good line or whatever. Mm. And, um, this very tough, um, religious brother who taught me, um, English, who was the most still to this day, most intimidating person I’ve ever, uh, encountered, um, He started telling me I was a good writer in a, in a very, um, minimal way.

you know, there’d be a comment on my paper like this, this is very good or whatever. Yeah. Doesn’t suck. right. Exactly. And so I was like, Hey, maybe I’m, maybe I’m good at this. And then, you know, so I sort of, I went off to college and I, I was sort of, um, Torn between whether I was going to study English or whether I was gonna write fiction or why couldn’t I do both?

I didn’t know why I thought I’ll do both. And then, and I’d want again, I’d won some contests, some writing contests for short stories when I was in college. And I thought, um, well, I’m gonna go to the Iowa writer’s workshop. I’m gonna go to one of these big, you know, creative writing programs when this would’ve been in the, um, in the, um, late eighties, when those were [00:36:00] really, uh, sort of.

There were, there were more and more of those great programs. And I was, and I went to college. Um, I went to Grinnell college. It was a small school in Iowa, but right near the, um, Iowa city where the Iowa writer’s workshop was. So I applied to like two or three of the top programs after I was gonna graduate.

Cuz I was gonna go to one of these creative writing programs and I didn’t get in. I didn’t get in anywhere I could shut out. And it was such a shock to me cuz I thought I. Great. , you know, I thought I was gonna get in and they were gonna be excited to have me, and it was a big shock to me. So I took a year off and then I went to, uh, to graduate school at the, at university of North Carolina in chapel hill in, in English.

And I decided I was gonna be a professor. And so I got my master’s degree in, um, 18 in, I studied Jane Austin was my, uh, area of. Uh, that I did my, uh, thesis on and, um, very different from what I do now. But,

David Gwyn: but I’m writing down a question right now to ask you, how does Jane Austin tie in with pulp fiction?

right.

SA Sidor: Well, Jane Austin must be something Jane. Austin’s a great writer. And Jane Austin understands, uh, and Jane Austin [00:37:00] understands, you know, what’s going on in the subtle interpersonal relationships between yeah. Between people and the power of a word and, uh, uh, and be, you know, being able and devastating things happen in the, in those books.

And, um, And then, you know, I just, um, I came to a point where I think it was, I read, um, Donna Tart’s a secret history when I was in graduate school and I thought, you know, This is what I wanna do. I wanna do what she’s doing. I don’t really wanna be a professor. And, um, so that was a big change of direction for me.

And then I sort of directed myself. I’ve always made a lot of very conscious decisions and planning about how I was gonna do things. And so when I moved, I moved back to the Chicago area. I got married and I worked in social services. Um, but that was just to, to. You know, just to pay the rent and, and, but also that allowed me to, it was so different from writing that I would work in the daytime, um, at my social [00:38:00] service job being a case manager.

Uh, and then at night I would write. And so I, and I’ve sort of always had that split, um, where. I had a, I write at night now is still the time that I do almost all my writing, even though, um, I, because I do my best writing and I’m most creative, um, then, and, um, but that was in it then that was, I had a plan, you know?

Mm.

David Gwyn: Yeah, I’m, I’m sure the gin helps, uh, in the evenings. Right? Aren’t you, uh, your gin drinker,

SA Sidor: right? I am a G drink. Yeah, that doesn’t, it doesn’t help with writing. I, I only have martinis on Saturday night and I don’t and I, and I don’t write on Saturday night. No, it doesn’t. It might make you think you’re writing, uh, pretty well, but you’re, you’re, you’re usually rock

David Gwyn: the next morning you wake up and you like, what was I doing?

yeah. So, I, I, I, I have to bring this up too, cuz I, I read your bio and I think this is so funny. Um, your, your background, you’ve had some interesting jobs before becoming a writer and, and I’ll, I’ll share a few here and then you can kind of think [00:39:00] about maybe how, how these might tie into what you do now.

And maybe it’s probably obvious to people as I, as I read this. So you have fry cook. Yeah, we did tables in a jazz club, right? Sold cacti. Yeah. Um, managed night shift in an institution for adults with mental illnesses. And your case is included a man possessed by the devil, a serial fire starter and a ol.

So I imagine that. Made your writing, uh, material really come alive. I would think some of those jobs, right? Yeah.

SA Sidor: I mean, a lot of those jobs, like the job in the jazz club was horrible. I was, I was basically a bus boy, but I got a great story out of it. You know, I got a, I got one great short story out of, I worked there for a few months and then the place the place went under and the guy who was running had stole all the money and nobody got paid and I had quit.

I had quit. Yeah. I had quit like a week before, before that happened. And, um, I felt. Impending doom when I had, I’m like something bad’s going to happen at this, at this jazz club. And, um, but I took the, the, the experience and I got a [00:40:00] short story out of it. And that short story won first place, first prize in a contest when I was in college.

And I thought, okay, well that justifies that bad job. I had that I got this great thing out of it. And, um, and when I worked with, um, The night shift, uh, in a, in a, um, residential home for people who had mental illness. Um, not a lot of people talked to the, to the residents and I would talk to them and they had a lot of really great stories.

Um, Both coming from their real life or also some of the people had stories of things that they stories they made up or stories, or, you know, unfortunately for some people they were stories of, um, from their hallucinations or, or delusions or things that they were having because, um, they were struggling with something and they needed, um, that they needed to work through with their, with their doctor.

And, but it was interesting to hear them. To talk to them and hear the, and you could tell that they’re that most people who were listening to them, weren’t really [00:41:00] listening to them. So to sit down or I had a guy, I would, I would, I would go for walks with him because that made him feel better. And so that was part of his programming and he would talk, you know, we would talk and, um, and I thought, boy, I wonder no one else talks to this person.

No one they’re living here. And no one talks to them and no one’s hearing their stories. And they’ve got, they’ve got really. Powerful, uh, things that they’re they’re articulating. And so I would try to through, you know, through all my various jobs to see, well, what can I take from here? That’s so real, um, that I can put in my own work.

And, um, so that I know, I mean, cuz I know it was powerful when I heard it the first time I heard it and I wanna recreate that, you know,

David Gwyn: So what let’s move to the, the present here. What, uh, what are you working on now?

SA Sidor: Um, well I just, I, I had finished up cult of the spider queen. Um, I’ve got some, um, I’ve got some new things I’d like to do with, um, Aconite going forward, but that’s still in a very early [00:42:00] process and I can’t, you know, I can’t really talk about what’s going on there.

Sure. Um, but, uh, um, I’ve also got projects done. I always have, I keep a file on my computer. Which I call the junkyard. And anytime I get an idea, whether it’s a character idea or just like a two line idea from a story or something, I see I put it in there. And then when I have periods between books, that’s where I go.

I go to my junkyard file. And most of the things in that file, I have totally forgotten about that. I just sort of, these are things I’ll jot down on a piece of paper or, or just observations I’ll make an, and, um, it’s sort of like in the movies where you see the person walking around with a little handheld recorder and they’re like, you know, which is always kind of a really dorky thing they have in the movies.

but I always thought. Super cool. And like, as a kid, I had one and I realized, this is not cool. This is, this is making, this is gonna, I’m going to get so attacked on the way home. If I, if they see me talking into a little, uh, handheld recorder, but it’s essentially what that file is. And then, so when I, if I’m between two books, I’ll go and look there.

And then I’ll sort of sift through everything and [00:43:00] say, well, this isn’t good enough to build a book about, but I can make a story from something here. Um, and starting a new story. Is a, is a really strange thing because you sort of, you don’t know if there’s enough there, you know, and I’ve had things where I’ve put in weeks or months of work on something only to find all I’m hitting is dead ends.

And there really wasn’t enough there. And that’s not that that’s not ultimately cannot be that that’s not a positive experience, but you sort of don’t know until you start the excavation. If you’re gonna find enough, To justify a book. And, um, for me, I’ve worked many different ways in my writing style, uh, to get a book done.

And, um, most of the time I’m a pretty organic writer. I don’t, I don’t plan very much out except, um, Rereading what I just finished and seeing where I, I do much better if I’m [00:44:00] improvising off of that though for my tie-in work. I, I obviously I have to have more of a plan before I get started and that’s something I didn’t do.

Um, Um, with the other, with the novels that weren’t tie-ins because I didn’t, I wasn’t checking in with anybody until I was done and I had a finished product and it’s really sort of been a new approach to sort of have to, um, collaborate with other people before a project gets started and say, well, what about something like this?

Does this sound like something that’s good? And if people are like, oh yeah, that sounds interesting. It’s, it’s sort of a different way. Of of working that that’s the thing too. I think, I think writers a lot of times that I see, um, or will, will listen to, or read something about it. I don’t think writers always pay enough attention to their own process.

Um, and what I mean by that is, you know, look back at what you’ve done. Hopefully you’re writing a lot. You know, I’m very leery of writing advice because I think every writer has their own way and there’s a, there’s a million ways to do it. And, you know, maybe one book the best way to write it was to write [00:45:00] it through in a month in a, you know, white heat.

And that’s the way to do it, you know, close yourself up in a cabin or a hotel room and write it. And another way to write a book is a little bit every day and I’ve. I’ve had both approaches work for me. And I know some people are big outliners. Um, I’ve never been able to do that cuz when I write a very detailed outline, um, the story feels dead to me.

Hmm. Um, but I’ve always written character sketches or uh, chronology that I typically do not follow for my own works. Um, or in, I shouldn’t say don’t follow am willing to change as it goes along. Um, and um, I think it’s important to look back and say, well, you know, if this isn’t working, why isn’t it working?

And what has worked for me? Because I tried working, writing early in the day, um, like first thing when I got up and it was just like drudgery, it was just like nothing because I, I, I, I don’t have any creative feelings that I can do editing in the daytime, but my creative [00:46:00] energies are really turning on about 7:00 PM and I’ll write.

you know, as long as things are going well. And because I have flexibility in, in, in, uh, my life right now that I, that I can do this. Um, but what I did when I, I was a stay-at-home dad, um, with, uh, two with a baby and a three year old, when I was writing one of my books. And so what, I, I couldn’t get any work done during the daytime because I was too busy taking care of the kids while my wife was off at work.

And supporting the family. Um, and so what I would do is when she would come home and we’d finish dinner and everything, I would make a pot of coffee and I would drink the pot of coffee. And now I knew I am going to be up till, till 2:00 AM, no matter what. So am I gonna get. Work done or am I just gonna feel exhausted tomorrow for nothing?

and so that’s kind of the same process I follow today, not as radical because I don’t have to, to do it that way, but I sort of, you know, I have my, um, I have my coffee and I get ready and I sort of get settled in as everybody else in the [00:47:00] house is going to bed. Um, that’s when I’m, that’s, when I’m going to work on my.

David Gwyn: That’s so funny that you use coffee as like, uh, to, to imprison yourself. You’re like, well, if I’m, if I’m here, I might as well. right.

SA Sidor: Yeah. Cuz I’m pretty sensitive to it even, even after all this time. And I know that if I drink a certain amount I’m up, so I’m either gonna be up and really hating myself or I’m gonna say, oh, well I gotta.

I got five pages or I got, you know, so, so

David Gwyn: that’s too funny. I, I, you know, I haven’t heard that. Uh, I, I like that though. You just, you’re tired. Well, drink a whole bunch of coffee and then you’re gonna be up. You might as well do, might as well do some stuff, right. Might as well

SA Sidor: work done. I don’t know what it is about. Writer’s routines that are so interesting, but this one is unique. It’s interesting how he hijacks his time and really holds himself hostage with coffee. As we get into my random questions coming up, I really liked what cider has to say about learning from non-writers.

[00:48:00] I feel like as writers, we spend a lot of time thinking about what other writers think and believe and how

David Gwyn: they write and how they work. But what I learned from this conversation is. Sometimes talking to readers who aren’t writers as a way to understand the market for books. And as a way to inform our writing can be really beneficial.

He also has a really interesting way of handling bad reviews and critiques of his

SA Sidor: work that I think we

David Gwyn: should all learn from. Let’s go to the last part of this interview. So I, I have this I’ve I’ve given up on, on trying to organize, um, this part of my interview. I, I feel like I usually have a good train through to this point.

And then I just, usually when I, when I’m talking to somebody, I have like four or five random questions that I’m just like, I just want to ask them these question. but they just don’t fit in the, in the train mm-hmm so I’m just gonna ask them, so, okay. You you’re warned they’re random. right. Uh, they’re all about writing and about your career, but they don’t, they don’t really have necessarily like a, a clear through line.

So mm-hmm, um, maybe we can find one as we, as we go, but, [00:49:00] um, one of the things, um, that, that keeps coming up as I, as I talk to writers is. And really everyone in the publishing industry is finding and maintaining a community or writing group, or at least just people who to talk to about the publishing industry.

Did you have one at all? Do you currently have one? Um, and why or why

SA Sidor: not? For me? No. I’ve really kind of been. I work alone and I, I, I don’t, I’ve never really been part of a writer’s group. Uh, I’ve never, I’ve never been close friends with other writers where, I mean, I have one or two writers where, where occasionally, um, share emails, you know, maybe a couple times a year about, you know, the business or how are things going or, you know, did the same thing happen to you that happen to me?

Or what did you think of the convention? But in general, mostly I’m I’m on my own. And I sort of, um, am comfortable with that, that sort of. Goes with my personality. I, I, um, I’m not a big joiner in things like that. I mean, I’ll tell you one thing that’s helped me is I, I, um, I run a book club where, um, I don’t pick the books, but [00:50:00] I organize the meetings and everybody else in the, in the group, nobody’s, nobody’s a writer.

We just get together and we read books, usually literary novels and everybody, uh, we get together, um, every couple months and we talk about the books and I’ve learned so much. From hearing people talk about books, who aren’t, who aren’t writers and what they like and what they don’t like and what they expect.

Um, and it’s really opened up a lot of things that were, I, my, my preconceptions were totally wrong, like books that I love and characters that I love, they hate and, and, and things that they really think are great. Um, I’m like, yeah, but we’ve seen that a thousand times and a thousand other books and they’re like, I don’t care.

I really. That’s kind of story. And I’m like, wow, I, that never occurred to me. You know, and I mean, I know people who literally will read the end of the book in the bookstore before they buy it. They’ll read the last couple of pages in our, in our group. And they’re like, I read the last couple of pages in the bookstore to see how the story ends.

And, um, if I like the way the story ends, I’ll buy the book [00:51:00] and I’m like, That never would’ve I never would’ve guessed that. And now we’re not friends anymore. right, right.

David Gwyn: That’s too funny. Yeah. My it’s, it’s funny as you’re saying this, like I, uh, my, my wife does the same thing. She’ll, she’ll read the end of the book and not always.

Uh, I think it’s usually when she gets like a few, um, chapters in, like, if she’s like, not sure if she’s liking it or not, she’ll like do the same thing and I’m like, you can’t do that. You just can’t do that. Um, but sure enough, I they’re out there. There are people out there that do it, apparently mm-hmm um, so if you had a magic wand and could fix one part of the book publishing processor, industry, it’s up to you, magic wand, one wish.

What, what do you think it would be.

SA Sidor: I think I’d have more publishers who had individual personalities and could, so that you didn’t always have to have [00:52:00] sort of lowest common denominator books if you’re writing something that’s mainstream. I mean, I think, um, because of, um, the consolidations in publishing that they’re, they’re very risk averse and they really, I think a lot of people in publishing.

Don’t know what’s what’s gonna sell or how things sell and they don’t necessarily know how to market the you’d think they’d know more because I think there’s a, there’s a certain magic spark, um, that sometimes happens with a book and still nobody’s got that figured out. And I think if there were a lot, I wish there was more diversity, um, on, on every level.

And I wish there were more publishers who, um, It wasn’t all the sameness of it. Um, which I think can be the blandness of it. Um, a lot of times gets me down and where I feel like everything is, um, it’s, it’s written just so that it appeals to the largest number of people rather than a book that a smaller [00:53:00] number of people will truly love.

You know, that, and I wish, I think before, when there were many more publishers. There that happened more often. And I think it’s a little harder, harder to find. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I think having, you know, knowing that if you’re sending a manuscript out and it gets rejected by a small number of people, that’s it?

That book’s, that book’s dead. Right. Um, unless you wanna go to a much smaller, then you’re dropping down to a much smaller publisher or a much, you know, even, um, to, to where, um, It feels like there could have been as a reader. I don’t like it. You know, as a reader, I feel like when I’m, when I’m, when I’m shopping for books, um, everything just kind of, sometimes just all looks the same and feels the same and tastes the same.

And I’m a person who gets easily bored. I get bored as a writer. I get bored as a reader and I wish things were, um, There were things that were, that there was just more of a, a, a variety of what’s out there. So I think that would be the biggest thing. [00:54:00] I wish there were just more places to try to, to have more that publishing houses who had more of personality to them.

And there were more of them.

David Gwyn: No, that makes a lot of sense. Mm-hmm so, uh, my audience is, is mainly made up of aspiring and struggling and writers. And, and so I feel like as an aspiring writer, myself and, and struggling writer as, as we all are, I, I feel like people respond a lot to. Hearing from, uh, successful authors and, and where they struggled.

So if, if there was like a moment that comes to mind of like a particular difficult moment or struggle that you had as a, as a writer and, and how you overcame that, I feel like, uh, people would really, really relate to that.

SA Sidor: You know, there’s a lot of failure in writing and there are very few things that you can control in this business, um, and what you can control.

Uh, is what’s on the page. And so I think a lot of people get wrapped up in everything else and they can’t [00:55:00] control those things. They can’t control if their book gets chosen to have a big marketing campaign or a small marketing campaign. And they can’t, um, you know, you can’t, you can’t try to chase a market and try to time something.

I mean, we’re talking about success in a business way, not success in a, what did I write a great story. Yeah, because I think those are two different things in a lot of ways. And I think you have to. You have to sort of come, come to peace with yourself and say, you know, I did, um, Uh, I I’m happy with the, the book that I wrote.

I, that was a good book, whatever happens. And I can remember once you’re asking for a specific incident, I can remember it was one of my earlier books. We found out that there was a, it was gonna be reviewed in a major newspaper. I don’t even, frankly, I don’t even remember who reviewed it or what the newspaper was, but I got a, I got an email from, or I don’t even know, maybe back then I was a phone call from my editor who said, um, there’s a big, your book’s getting reviewed.

It’s coming out at this. You know, we gotta look for it. And I got the paper and I looked and it was a bad. Oh, wow. And, um, and it really made me [00:56:00] feel bad. And I have to say, I learned, and this was like, I think I don’t remember, but it was very early on in my, in my career. And really, I don’t pay, uh, attention to reviews and I know writers say that.

And a lot of them are, they don’t, they’re not really doing that, but I, but I’m saying as a healthy thing, when once the work is done, I really don’t. Don’t pay attention to, to that. I mean, I’ll still hear obviously about good or bad reviews from friends of mine or people where say, oh, you should see this.

I saw this on good reads. Or I saw this on Amazon and I want good reviews. I mean, I want people to review my book and I want honest reviews, you know, mm-hmm, um, But I really kind of feel like my work is done. You know, I, there’s nothing I can do to change that book. And if you give me a great review, um, or you give me a bad review, the book is still the book and it’s on the shelf and there it is.

And I’m so really I have, and it’s made me, it’s a freedom. That I have that I’m like, you know, yes, I’m listening to people all along the way when I’m [00:57:00] making the book, but once it’s done and I’ve sent it off and you know, you always can do more, but there comes a time where you’re kind of exhausted with a book where you’re just like, you don’t even see the words on the page anymore when you’re, when you’re doing like the 15th, um, uh, you know, review.

And you’re just like, I can’t even, it, everything is just disappearing. And then I’m like, okay, I’m done with you and I’m moving on to the next thing. And I think that moving on to the next thing with, with that other book behind you has been very mentally healthy for me. Um, and really to the point where I’m ready to, I’m like sort of emptied of the last book.

So I have room to fill up with what the new book is that I’m working on to the extent to which I’ve had books, where. Even books. I didn’t write that long ago. I have whole passages and stuff that I don’t remember writing. And I mean, I actually had a book where I opened it up at random one time cuz I found it in a box, one of my own books and I’m.

Oh, no, this, this has been a huge, there’s been a huge mistake. I never wrote [00:58:00] this scene. and it got in the book. Some, it must be from somebody else’s book or I don’t know what happened here. And I really, I was tired at having this horrible panic because I don’t, and I don’t read my books once the actual book is comes out.

You know, I’m not gonna sit down. I’m busy doing the next book and. So I’m like, oh no, no, this is a hor oh, nobody got what I was really doing. This is, I don’t even know where this came from. And then I went to my computer and was shocked to see that this was in my file, that I had read that I had written this whole scene that I had no memory whatsoever of writing.

And it was really strange and I’m like, wow, that’s, that’s kind of, and I have a, I have a great memory. So it’s not like I’m a person with a bad memory. Mm. Or, I mean, I had, I had a guy, I had a neighbor of mine. Talk to me about a book that I had not finished, not that long ago. And I mean, I really. I take a lot of time and care with my books.

I mean, I, I, I am not a slap dash with my books and they were talking to me about a character and they said, you know, the detective and they were like, I can’t remember the name. And I. The tall one. And they’re like, you don’t know [00:59:00] the name of your own character that, and I’m like, well, gimme a minute. I’ll I’ll, I’ll, I’ll think of it.

And it’s, it’s funny how your brain can only hold so much and you know, a book to keep all the plates spinning and holding a whole book is, um, it takes up a lot of circuits, you know? And so I would just say, you know, as an as advice to, to writers who are struggling, there’s a lot of pain. You gotta be, everything’s gotta be so you can move forward and be productive.

And if you can take that pain of rejection or failure and you can use it as fuel or to get better, use it. If you can’t use it. Cut it loose. Yeah. It’s not, it’s not good, Carrie, so I .

David Gwyn: Yeah. Um, so my, my last kind of question, I, I guess I have two more questions. The last ones, the last ones could really the wrap up, which is I, so I’m a, I’m a, um, father of a two year old.

And my, my second one, actually, my second one’s due date is today, my wife. Oh yeah. She hasn’t delivered yet. So like where I was like, it’s funny. I was like, fingers crossed. I got to [01:00:00] talk to you. Uh, and it would get at least one more day. Um, but, uh, so any advice out there, I know a lot of people, uh, talk to are busy professionals, our, our parents, um, you know, have these other commitments, uh, anything you suggest for both fi I know you, you write at night, which, which we’ve talked about, but mm-hmm, , um, even just compartmentalizing and being able to be fully present as a, as a parent, um, while also feeling I’m sure the pressures.

Completing something on, on the side. Like, can you talk a little bit about that? And, and any, any advice you have for, for us parents out there? .

SA Sidor: Sure. I mean, I can, I can give you for whatever it’s worth the, the, my own experience. You have to learn how to say no to things that you, that you might wanna do so that you can work on your book.

So when you have a lot of other time commitments, whether it’s your job or parenting, I mean, those things are super important and it’s, you know, ultimately I think it’s more important to be a good parent than to have written a good book, but they’re both important to your life if [01:01:00] you’re a writer. So what I would say is, you know, You have to make that a time when you’re gonna try to work on your book and whether that’s an hour, a day or two hours a day, or this, this two week, you know, span that I’ve set aside and then you have to, um, Try to keep that as clean as you can so that you can just work on the book during that, during that little segment.

And this is not a new idea, I’ve heard it before, but it’s really proven to be true for me. And some books I’ve written a little bit at a time. I’m for me, I’m a fairly slow writer. Uh, three to five pages a day is good for me, but those are three to five. Good pages. And, um, and, and I do, you know, I do a lot of checking, but my, I usually don’t have to do a ton of rewriting those, you know, those are, and I’ve been doing it long enough now that I can feel confident that something is good.

And so one way to do it is just, you know, you’re writing a little bit every day and you get that and I can sort of feel it like a workout or whatever that. My mu you know, my brain muscle, my writing muscle [01:02:00] is exhausted today and I’m not, I, I can’t do anymore. So then I’ll read or I’ll do some editing or something of my, you know, go over, move periods and commas around or something like that.

Um, but you have to also say no to certain things like, no, I’m not gonna go to this party or no, I’m not gonna, uh, take this off because I, I have this other very important thing. And. The things in life that are important to you are the things that you make time for. So if your writing is really important, you have to find a way to make time to, to do it.

And it’s hard. It’s super hard. And you can’t beat yourself up. If you don’t write every day or you didn’t hit your word goal or whatever, because. You know, you, you, if you wanna keep going, you gotta forgive yourself and find a way to not make that same mistake again. Yeah, no, that’s

David Gwyn: great advice. Uh, I mm-hmm , I, I appreciate that,

SA Sidor: but it’s still hard and it doesn’t get any easier, you know, but the, as book goes on, they don’t get, they don’t get every once in a while.

You’ll have a good day or maybe a good, you know, month, but it’s not like you find a magic formula and suddenly you can [01:03:00] sit down and it’s easy. At least it’s not for me. Mm,

David Gwyn: well, it’s it’s past seven o’clock so I’m sure your pot of coffee is, is hot and wait waiting for you for tonight. So, uh, my last question is just where can people look you up?

Where can people find you

and

SA Sidor: your work? Um, I would, I would say, uh, Go to my Twitter page. I could always use more Twitter followers. I don’t have enough and that’s, I know my publishers think I don’t have enough. I don’t spend, uh, enough time trying to get people to go to my Twitter page. Um, I, I end up not doing very much on my, uh, my, my website.

So, uh, there’s I mean, there’s some information about me there, but I would say the Twitter page is, is a good place to check in with what’s going on with me now. Um, and go to my, um, go to my publisher, um, at Aite. Um, and that’ll tell you about, you know, whatever’s whatever I’m working on, right?

David Gwyn: Great. Yeah, I’ll, I’ll link that too to, to the notes page that, that people have quick access to that stuff.

And, um, I really appreciate you taking the time and, and I really enjoyed this. I, I feel like I, I learned a lot and, um, I, I’m excited about [01:04:00] the, you know, where you’re headed with the, the rest of this work. It, if. It feels like a whole new world has opened up in front of me, of, of public fiction. And I’m, I’m really excited to explore.

So thank you, um, for, for taking the time and, and thanks for your work. I appreciate it. Yep. Thank you. All right. And that’s

SA Sidor: it with SA cider. I had such a great conversation with him and really enjoyed it. Next week. We are gonna chat with accomplished copywriter, Nikki Craik of filthy rich writer. She was so much fun to talk to.

David Gwyn: And if you want a job where you wake up every day and write for good money, you’re gonna wanna make sure you listen in. So be sure to subscribe. So you don’t miss that and I’ll see you next week.